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On this episode of National Disability Radio, we sit down with three women leaders in the disability rights movement, Marlene Sallo (NDRN), Maria Town (AAPD) and Robin Troutman (NACDD) for a discussion about the challenges of being a disabled woman in a leadership position, the challenges of balancing work and caretaking, and even the Barbie movie.
Full Transcript at: https://www.ndrn.org/resource/ndr-march24/
Raquel Rosa:
Give me the signal.
Michelle Bishop:
Get us started. That would be stretching if you heard that.
Raquel Rosa:
That stuff is all to be removed. 3, 2, 1.
*Intro Music Plays*
Michelle Bishop:
Welcome back to National Disability Radio. To all of our loyal listeners, we are really excited this month because it is Women’s History Month. I am Michelle Bishop with NDRN. I am one of your hosts of the podcast.
Raquel Rosa:
And I am Raquel Rosa. I am another of our hosts. It’s good to see you all today.
Michelle Bishop:
And unfortunately our last host, Stephanie Flynn, is out on leave. So she’s not with us this month, but she will be back. Stephanie, we miss you. Don’t leave us. I can’t believe I’m going to say this. We are not going to have your jokes, and I might miss it a little bit. So come back to us soon, Stephanie. So like I said, it’s Women’s History Month. Here we are, your all woman podcast, plus Jack. Jack, our producer, if you want to introduce yourself to the people.
Jack Rosen:
See, I was just going to sit back and listen, being as it’s Women’s History Month.
Michelle Bishop:
Oh, bravo. Yes, yes. We love an ally, yes.
Raquel Rosa:
Yes. Sisters before misters. Thank you, Jack.
Michelle Bishop:
So should we get right into it? Raquel, do you want to tell the people about this episode?
Raquel Rosa:
As Michelle said, this is Women’s History Month, and she had the pleasure of sitting down with three women leaders in the disability rights movement. She had a great conversation with Marlene Sallo, the ED of NDRN, Maria Town, who is the president and CEO of AAPD, and Robin Troutman, the interim ed of NACDD. Take it away, Michelle.
Michelle Bishop:
So this month on National Disability Radio is Women’s History Month. Ladies, it is our month and we have a really exciting conversation for you today. I’m going to be talking with three women who are leaders in the disability rights movement about where we’re at, where we’ve come from and where we’re going. So if I could ask you all to take a moment first to just introduce yourselves to our listeners, Marlene, would you like to go first?
Marlene Sallo:
Sure. Hi, everyone, I’m Marlene Sallo and I’m the executive director here at NDRN, and I go by the pronouns she/aya.
Michelle Bishop:
And Maria.
Maria Town:
Hi, everyone, my name is Maria Town. I’m the president and CEO at the American Association of People with Disabilities. Pronouns she, her and hers.
Michelle Bishop:
And last but never least Robin.
Robin Troutman:
Thank you, Michelle. Hi everyone, I’m Robin Troutman, interim executive director at the National Association of Councils on Developmental Disabilities. And I go by she/her pronouns.
Michelle Bishop:
So to get us started, since we just have such an amazing group of leaders on the podcast today, I was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about your experiences specifically as a woman in leadership in the Civil Rights Movement and what it took for you to get here. It’s an open question for anyone who has thoughts.
Marlene Sallo:
Well, being that I’m in my feelings today, this is Marlene. I can safely say that it’s been a long road. I would say I’m the oldest one here on the call. And being a woman of color and an immigrant, there’s been a lot of doubt along the way from certain people in certain circles as to whether I could rise to the occasion. Obviously, I always have, but the microaggressions that I’ve encountered throughout my career are real. But you learn to ignore the noise, and you just live to your full expectation, and you show up to work, and you get the job done.
Robin Troutman:
This is Robin. I’ll just note that as a relatively new leader in nonprofit worlds, I suffer from a terrible case of imposter syndrome, that I definitely look around the room even on this podcast today of oh my, how am I included with these extraordinary women? But every day I learn a little bit more how to believe that I’m supposed to be here and just prove myself, as Marlene said. Just show them who you are and what you can do, and it will keep them quiet.
Maria Town:
This is Maria. I’ll just add, and I want to point out that Marlene said something amazing. She said, “Obviously, I always have.” And I just want to cheer for that. Obviously, she’s always risen to the occasion, and that’s true for so many of us. I think for me, especially as someone who is younger and who has a very visible developmental disability, a lot of times when I come into rooms, people just assume that I am not a leader. And I’ve had to really learn how to exert and show my own power because I think people just assume that someone who moves like me and who looks like me isn’t going to be a president and CEO.
And I’ve had to deal with a lot of internalized ableism, and I’ll give an example of this. Being specifically a leader of an organization that does a lot of work in DC, there’s a lot of moments where you’re supposed to be working a room, moving around it and shaking hands and making sure you catch the ear of a policymaker or another influential change maker. And I physically cannot do that a whole lot of the time. And so I have to constantly tell myself that I’m able to do the job that I have and find other ways to make it work. And that often relies on actually working with other people like Marlene and Robin and saying, “Hey, can you go tell this person over there that I want to talk to them and maybe make them come to me?” Or positioning myself next to the food or the drink table to make sure that I am seen, so that people can’t just walk on by or look me over.
Michelle Bishop:
Maria, positioning yourself next to the food is absolutely brilliant. I am stealing that one in the future. But we’ve known each other for a while, Maria, and I’ve never heard you talk about that before, about the expectation of who you are when you walk into a room based on your disability. That’s really powerful, and all of this is real. The ableism, the microaggressions that Marlene talked about, especially for women of color, all of these things that we’re up against, even if we keep moving forward. And I actually really felt Robin when she was talking about the imposter syndrome. That is my life every day. I constantly feel like a kid from Syracuse, New York, and every time I’m in a room with important people, I’m like, “How exactly did I get here?”
So it’s real and I think that that’s really a common experience for women, in particular, who are in places of leadership. And we could probably take more than a podcast episode, it would probably take a whole day just to dig into one of those issues. And I regret that it’s just a podcast and we don’t have all that time. But if we were to maybe take it and do something with it, something that’s useful for our listeners, how could we maybe better support women who are in our movement and create meaningful opportunities for involvement and for leadership for women in the disability rights world?
Robin Troutman:
This is Robin. I think something that is so important, not only in the disability community but for women, is that we have to just support each other. We can’t be fighting with each other because we’re already getting a lot of, as everyone said already, internal ableism and systemic racism and ableism and misogyny. And so we have to be able to support each other and uplift each other, because if we don’t do it for ourselves as women, as women or in the they/them or women presenting, then who else is going to? So we need to be able to find our own common ground and lift each other up.
Maria Town:
This is Maria. I feel like it’s always important to point out that disabled women and women of color and women leaders need a lot of the same things. Being a leader does not mean that you don’t also have caregiving responsibilities and need paid leave. Being a leader doesn’t mean that you also aren’t on benefits and need drastic improvements to our nation’s benefit systems so that you can save money and actually plan for your future. And I think a lot of the policy change that all of us are working on as individuals and all of us are working on in our organizations is hopefully change that when it happens will allow more women to lead, more women of color, more disabled women, more queer women, because I am constantly thinking about just who is not in these spaces with all of these important people. Not because they don’t have the knowledge or the expertise or the skills, but because our systems are keeping them out.
And I think one of the reasons that I am where I am today is because systems happened to work for me, and I feel like it was a just moment of luck, and I shouldn’t have to feel that way. I should have confidence that systems like inclusive education will work for everyone. And I think we still got a lot of work to do on that front.
Marlene Sallo:
I agree with everything that was said, so plus one for both of you. I also think about my role as a leader, and really I feel that I have a responsibility to those that come behind me to be a role model, to also bring those along with me, to lift others up, especially young professionals and help them and try to connect them to folks, especially here in DC where it is just so difficult. Just to make sure that I can serve as a source or a bridge for young professionals is so very important for me, especially those that don’t get the same opportunities that others might.
I myself, I went to Title I schools and we had public assistance, and so I worked really hard, but it was that one person who held their hand out to provide a reference for something or who really served as a role model and as a cheerleader for me, which will forever be my eighth grade teacher, Mrs. DiCarlo, that I think of to this day who gave me that extra oomph to have that self-confidence. And so as women, we need to be able to provide that to each other.
Michelle Bishop:
I love this story of a teacher. I don’t know if you all know my mom was a teacher, she’s also our podcast listener, but my mom was a teacher. So you’re going to make me cry, just thinking about how one person that you even meet maybe early in life as a kid is someone who you’ll remember for the rest of your life as having such an impact on the course that you took. I can relate to that. I imagine all of our listeners can. So I want to open that up to everyone. Were there women along the way who helped you get to where you are or are still a mentor or a cheerleader for you? I like that when you use cheerleader, women supporting women, I think is so important. But were there women along the way that were there for you?
Maria Town:
This is Maria. There were so many women along the way for me, really starting with the women in my family, my mom, my grandmothers who I was just thinking about this yesterday. My mom really encouraged me to dream. And I’m from South Louisiana and I thought it was funny that whenever I wanted to learn how to sew, which all of the women in my family did, my mom really did not want to teach me. And I think part of that is because she wanted me to know that I had options beyond being in the home. And my mom is a nurse, but she always really just encouraged me to dream so big and bigger than what I could see in front of me in South Louisiana.
And it’s interesting because I’ve met women along the way who helped me refine a sense of what I wanted to be and who I wanted to become because, of course, disability advocacy was not a career path that I ever saw as a child or even a young adult. And as I’ve continued on my journey, there have just been so many women who have been in the same field as me or folks who are in a completely different field. And I continue to rely on multiple group chats of other disabled women for support and guidance and whenever I need to just yell. I would not be able to get through my day without the support of other women.
Marlene Sallo:
This is Marlene. So along with Maria, I have to say my abuela has always been my biggest cheerleader and biggest supporter. She always used to say, “I brought you to this country so that you could have the freedom to be all that you want to be and all that you can be.” And so she too showed me how to sew. She was a seamstress in Cuba, so I give her a thumbs up for that. But she was also the first one to say, “When you marry, remember you’re not your husband’s maid. It’s equality.” Because in the Latino community, there tends to be that machismo going on.
But along the way I would say my colleagues, I’ve always had a really strong sisterhood with colleagues. We protect each other from any negativity. We lift each other up. We amplify each other’s voices. I think that’s been the best thing of all in my career. Sadly, outside of Mrs. DiCarlo from a leadership perspective, I’ve always worked in a very male-dominated arena. But I will say that the managing attorney in my first legal job, to this day we remain friends because she was so very supportive from day one.
Robin Troutman:
This is Robin and I’ll just start by saying I’m very jealous that you even had the opportunity to learn to sew because I did not and have been struggling to put buttons on my children’s clothes. So jealous that you all had that. I wish I had the ability to sew.
Maria Town:
We can teach you, Robin.
Robin Troutman:
Thank you. Please, please. I could barely do a button. It’s really, really sad. But I think similar to what Marlene shared, my grandmother was just a remarkable model of strength. She came to this country after World War II. She was a Holocaust survivor. She was a cancer survivor. She lost most of her family throughout the years. She lived to be 99. She lost her husband. She lost her oldest daughter, who was my mother. But she always was opening the home, cooking and feeding and saying that we always had a place with her. And so I’m that way too. People have a place with me. They can come over. I’ll feed you. I’ve definitely learned that, that we need to have more of these open, safe spaces for everybody, not just our younger generation and our children, but everybody needs a place where they can feel safe.
And so I’ve learned that from my grandmother, that despite everything that you might go through, that you can still be that guiding light and solid rock for others. And so I try to do that for my friends, my colleagues throughout. But there has been one woman leader who I, to this day, we still get lunch every so often. And I don’t think she realized that I was just sucking up all of the information and mannerisms and everything, how she dealt with conflict I have by osmosis gotten from her. And I feel like I’m a much better person who can have conversations, be more diplomatic, and it’s all from a former supervisor, Melinda, who is just an extraordinary woman.
Michelle Bishop:
I can say for my part, I don’t know if any of the three of you realize how much I look at the three of you in awe on a regular basis because you are all just rock stars. And it’s really amazing and it’s really exciting to see. And the fact that we’re having a conversation about women in leadership in the movement and we’re talking to three women who are running disability rights organizations is incredible.
As we’re having this conversation and all of your stories were amazing in striking, I feel like I learned a lot about all of you today, but moms came up, grandmas came up. We talked a little bit about teachers or professional colleagues, but there was a lot of those women in our families. And earlier in the conversation someone brought up the concept of caregiving. And that’s stuck with me as well in this conversation, where women, we’re going to work, and we are supposed to be bosses and leaders at work, and we’re crushing it, and we are breadwinners for our families and are contributing in that way.
But I feel like there’s still this expectation that on top of all that women are still caregivers. Whether or not we’re talking about a partner or children or aging parents or a loved one with a disability, I feel like that expectation is still there, that women are supposed to be the nurturers and the caregivers. And I’m wondering, what’s that for you all? Is that a pressure that you feel? And if so, how do we find that balance between being a boss at work, and I mean that in a good way, in a way like you’re crushing the game, and also maybe fulfilling some of those that we have at home?
Marlene Sallo:
Ooh, if I may jump in here, it’s Marlene. It’s really hard. I raised my kid by myself, and then that set things in motion where you were constantly going above and beyond what you needed to do because you didn’t want anyone to frown upon the fact that you also had to take care of your children at home. And then my grandma was sick, and we all were pitching in, so then that was the double requirement. And I was here in DC and you find yourself apologizing that you need to go back, that you need to fly out of DC to be there and pitch in for your loved one who was ill. And through all of that, as a woman with a disability who was self-identified later on in life, my disabilities are not apparent, you’re trying to keep all of that in check so that folks don’t say, “Not only does she need extra time, but she also has has a disability that’s keeping her out of work because of pain or whatever.”
And it’s a push and pull, and it shouldn’t be that way at all, because we’re all carrying and we’re all taking care of others and carrying our own personal loads. And we should show each other grace 24/7 because regardless of what’s going on at home, I’m still going to show up to work and I’m still going to get my job done. It may not be within the timeframe that you want, that 9:00 to 5:00 timeframe, but for all you know, I’m getting up at 5:00 in the morning and getting things done before I have to take care of those in my household. And in the evening I may put everybody to bed and then pick up and continue where I left off.
And a perfect example was my first week on the job as an attorney with the state, and my son got really, really ill, and I couldn’t be at work. And I was responsible for first appearances in the courtroom, and I did all of the petitions from my house using my FAX while taking care of my sick child. And fast-forward my first evaluation, and they thanked me for going above and beyond, but said, “I can’t give you the score I want to give you on your evaluation because we don’t have the money to give you a bonus. So we’re going to give you a three instead of a five. But know we noticed your extra effort.”
Robin Troutman:
Oh my Lord, Marlene.
Marlene Sallo:
Oh, I have stories.
Robin Troutman:
I’m sorry that happened. That’s not fair. But I will say similar almost is after I had my second child, six weeks later, I was carrying him at our annual conference because we did not have the ability to hire a temporary staff. So I walked around an annual conference with my newborn six-week-old baby strapped to my chest. But no bonus points there either. But as women we’re expected to make it happen when others aren’t. And I have to say I’m very fortunate that my husband, when it comes to cooking and cleaning, I know that I can count on him, but for things like taking the kids to the doctor and making appointments and knowing when everything is, that does still fall to me in that nurturing aspect. I don’t know if it’s not that he can’t, I think it’s just that’s my organization style.
I’m not quite sure. But that piece where with my kids, I have a 13-year-old and a 5-year-old. They’re at very different stages in their life, but they need their mom, and also they need me to work so that they can do the things that they want to do and play sports and use the computer. So it is always that push and pull. Marlene, you mentioned push and pull, and I immediately think of that amazing monologue in the Barbie movie about women. And it’s true. We can’t be everything to everyone all the time, but we also need to be afforded some grace, and sometimes we’re just not given it.
Maria Town:
Shout out to America Ferrera. And Robin, it does not have to be this way. It does not. And I think one of the things that I’m trying to do at AAPD is really focus on our organizational policies and culture so that our team, including myself, doesn’t have to be in these positions. And it’s something that I’m just constantly working on, and I don’t have children, but I do provide a lot of support for my family. And similar to what Marlene mentioned, I live in DC and my family lives in a different state and so a lot of that caregiving and support is remote. Very recently, my father was very, very sick, and I was his primary caregiver. And there was a moment where I was at the hospital with him, and again, he’s dying at this point. And so I was trying to be in all of his appointments.
But going back to the story I shared at first, because I have a mobility aid and I have a disability that makes my body spastic, a lot of the healthcare providers did not want me to go into the room with him. And they would say things like, “Oh, the exam room isn’t going to be big enough to fit your scooter.” At one point someone said, “Oh, well the wife usually goes back.” And my dad is single, he does not have a wife. And it was a reminder to me of just how much of our care system is just assumed to be done and built and continued by women. And I was constantly worried that my dad’s medical care and healthcare, the quality of it would be impacted because of ableism that was directed at me as his caregiver. And thankfully I don’t think that that happened, but it was just a constant.
And I also want to note, especially in the disability community, I provide a lot of care for friends, and a lot of friends provide care for me, and it’s been tricky. So over the pandemic, I lost ability to put on my shoes by myself, and it stunk because I can literally do everything else I need to do, but when it comes time to put on my shoes, I cannot figure out how to make it work. And so I’ve had friends come over and help me with my shoes, but it’s not enough of a need to qualify for something like personal attendant services. And when I travel now to conferences, I have a pair of shoes that I can slip on my feet, and I now have a running list of disability leaders who have helped me fasten my shoes, because I’ll flag somebody down at a conference and say, “Hey, can you help me?”
Just letting you all know, Marlene, Robin and Michelle, I’m sure one day I will ask you. But I don’t think that people would assume that the president and CEO of a civil rights organization often has to rely on the kindness of strangers to help her put on shoes, but that is a very regular occurrence for me every time I travel for work.
Michelle Bishop:
We got you, Maria.
Maria Town:
Thank you.
Robin Troutman:
Happy to help anytime.
Michelle Bishop:
Totally. Maria, you never once judged me when I’ve been … I can remember this time you and I were on our way into a meeting at the Department of Justice. It is the longest walk ever back to that conference room, you know the one I’m talking about, and I was limping something fierce that day. And you didn’t say a thing, and you didn’t judge, and you didn’t even point out that I probably should have worn more practical footwear when I knew darn well I was limping before I left the house that morning. So I got you. If you ever need a shoe, I got you.
Maria Town:
Thank you all. I really appreciate it.
Michelle Bishop:
Yeah, that one question just opened up more than I think I could have imagined in terms of the weight that we carry every day, but also the ways in which we’re showing up for and supporting each other, which is also really amazing. I think about that a lot these days, especially in this current world of work-from-home and hybrid work, which I think opens up a lot of amazing benefits to our lives and to how we manage work in life, but also comes with maybe some unanticipated side effects.
When everything is a Zoom meeting, they get scheduled back to back to back, as if no one needs a moment in between to do anything else or to catch their breath or to make sure a shout out to Rebecca Coakley and make sure we all ate lunch today, as disabled women often do not do. Or meetings get scheduled real early or real late because everyone’s thinking, “You just got to log into a Zoom and you’re already home and it’s not a big deal.” But who’s got kids at home that needs to switch over to parent duty and can’t necessarily take a late meeting just because it doesn’t mean that they have to run across town on the red line?
Actually Robin and I are on a coalition call together that used to be scheduled for every week very late in the day on a Friday, and Robin is my hero because she was the only person who had the nerve to say, “We can’t keep meeting at this time. My kids are off school. It’s a Friday. They go wild at this time.” And to which I immediately then was emboldened to jump in and say, “I, like Robin’s kids, lose all control after this time on a Friday as well.” And we were able to get that moved because it was totally impractical. I’m sure you remember that, Robin.
Robin Troutman:
I sure do. That was. Just even thinking about the pandemic and just I don’t understand how during the pandemic, because I guess we all were doing it, we just had that grace that we mentioned earlier. We allowed for grace. I was on a call with, if you remember early in the pandemic, the administration on community living. And my now five-year-old, who was only less than two, comes up to me to tell me he has poop on his hands in full volume to everyone at ACL. Just had to be like, “You got to wait a minute now because I have to go clean something.” But I feel like it’s only been four years. Despite what everyone is saying, what people are thinking, COVID is still real, and we need to be very aware that it’s not over for the disability community, a lot for the elderly. So we need to remember that just because it works for some, a situation is not going to work for everyone. And we need to be more accessible, more flexible and just more willing to listen and make changes.
Michelle Bishop:
Actually, that, I think, leads nicely to where I wanted to take this conversation to start to wrap us up, which is to say that a lot of our listeners, with the known exception of my mom, if you guys don’t know, it’s a running joke on the podcast that my mom is our only listener. But most of our listeners are staff at P&As that are in NDRN’s network, and we like to have something that they can do about this. If there was one thing they could do right now or how can they lead from where it is that they sit. Even if they’re not, we’ve got a lot of executive directors on the show today, but they may not be in that position of leadership at their organizations. How can they lead from where they sit? What is one thing that they can do right now to support women taking on meaningful leadership roles and coming up in this movement?
Marlene Sallo:
I would say, this is Marlene, we all start from somewhere. So as you said, from where they’re at right now, look to your left, look to your right. If there’s anyone that you can support, do so. If anyone is having a rough day, be kind, step up, try to give them a helping hand. And I always want to be surrounded by women that will say my name in a room when I’m not there in a positive manner. I think that is key to showing support to those in your circle, regardless of whether you’re a young professional or you’re days from retirement or even post-retirement. That’s what I want to be surrounded by. That’s the kind of group that I want to belong to. That’s the community I seek. It’s like we say each other’s name in the room when we’re not there, and it’s always for the positive, and it’s always to lift each other up.
Maria Town:
This is Maria-
Robin Troutman:
This is Robin. I’d like to … oh, sorry.
Maria Town:
I just wanted to shout out Michelle who’s done that at least twice today. So on emails today, Michelle has looped in a member of my team that I thought was copied who wasn’t. Robin, she’s looped in you. Just to shout out our host, Michelle is one of those people who I think really embodies that practice. Marlene, and I think that’s such a good way to be. And I also want to shout out the AAPD team who constantly push me in, again, our organizational culture. And I think if you have a way, even if it’s with your supervisor or another colleague of saying, “Hey, I really need meetings to start at 9:30 because it’s tough for me to be super alert for 8:30 or 9:00 AM,” or “I have to do kid drop-off in the morning. Can our meetings start a little later?”
Even conversations like that amongst colleagues can build towards larger changes in your organization and help you build up a coalition of the willing, folks who you know, you share values with, who will have your back when you want to take it up to the next level or challenge others in positions of power who might be helping to maintain these systems that are built with misogyny embedded in them. So Robin, I’ll pass it to you.
Robin Troutman:
No, thank you, Maria. I actually was going to say the same thing as a thank you to Michelle just because just like you said, she looked around, and she was like, “Wait, there are some women missing in this email thread.” And so thank you, Michelle, for making sure that the people who needed to be represented are represented. But just like my colleagues are saying on this call, one, we have to practice what we preach. We are always being looked at, especially as women, but as women leaders, as women leaders with disabilities. I too have non-apparent disabilities. I don’t necessarily promote myself as that, but I do. So we’re always being scrutinized, so we need to be in public supporting each other, finding who’s missing, who needs to be part of the conversation.
And I’d also really put in a plug for mentorship. You never know who sees you as a mentor, but there are so many young people there and not even young in terms of age, but young to our network and young to advocacy. So take them under your wing, and even if it’s just like a brief coffee conversation or tea, if you don’t drink coffee, or water if you don’t drink tea, it’s taking a few minutes to make somebody feel welcomed and that they are vital to the conversation goes a long way as well to uplifting and supporting.
Michelle Bishop:
This is an audio podcast, so none of you can see me, but I’m cheesing right now. Thank you. Y’all made me feel so good. But yes, it’s important to me and I know it’s important to all of you. Women supporting women is a big part of how I think we all have gotten to where we are and keep it moving even when it’s hard. And I think that that’s really important. And I would say also to our listeners as well, if you are listening to this podcast and you don’t identify as a woman, you are not excluded from this conversation. There is room for allies in every movement. And if you look around in a room and you don’t see any women or women who are in positions of leadership represented, that’s a thing that you can call out or invite other folks into the room.
There are different points in my career, and I bet it’s happened to you all as well, where I am sitting in a meeting and a male colleague has asked a question about something that I was working on or given credit or a project that a woman colleague of mine had actually been working on. And I think anyone in that room can see that, be conscious of it and call it out and take steps to correct it. Anyone can do that and can support women who are coming up in the movement, and I think that’s really important. There are small things.
Marlene started off the conversation today talking about microaggressions, and I think there are small things that we can all do to see those, to be conscious of them and to see them and to acknowledge that they’re there and to do something about those in the spaces that we’re in from the chair in which we sit. So hopefully that inspires some of you. We’ve had some amazing inspirational conversation today about so many things and what each of you are up against, but also where you find strength and support in how you’re getting it done. And I think that’s incredible. I think that’s the message of March is that women rock. At least that’s what I take from it.
We even shouted out the Barbie movie, which I think is very important actually. I think we all know that monologue from the Barbie movie that was referenced and how much it absolutely hit the nail on the head. I know we probably opened up more questions than we answered today, but it’s an ongoing conversation, and it’s an ongoing process. And I’m just so thankful to all of you for joining us and having this conversation with me today. You know I think all of you are incredible. I’m sure all of our listeners know it now as well. But thank you for taking time out of your really busy schedules of juggling all of the things and having this conversation with us. I really appreciate it.
Raquel Rosa:
Well, thank you, Michelle, for hosting a really lively and empowering conversation. As women, we obviously look up to others who are leading this work, and I think we are seeing a legacy being formed before us. So thank you for facilitating that conversation. And I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I’m sure it was a really special experience for you.
Michelle Bishop:
It was awesome sitting down with those three. I didn’t know how deep the conversation was going to get, but they brought the realness, which I know all three of them, so in retrospect, I should have known they were going to bring the realness. It was so cool to have that conversation. And what you’re saying now is making me think of this conversation I had with a colleague of mine years ago, where we were talking about how when you look at the Civil Rights Movement, there’s so many women in the work, there’s so many of us that work for these organizations, and we were like, “Ten years from now we look around, and none of us are in leadership positions, and none of us are executive directors and CEOs, then we know there’s a problem.” So the fact that it was so easy for us to identify three powerful women who are at the heads of their organizations that are major disability rights organizations to have this conversation, that to me, I just felt really encouraged. So that was so exciting as a way to mark Women’s History Month.
Raquel Rosa:
I love it. And I’m sure that young Michelle at the beginning of her career is very proud of you. I know that Young Raquel is very proud of us. So yay.
Michelle Bishop:
That’s Raquel. Started from the bottom. Now we’re here.
Raquel Rosa:
Yes, yes.
Michelle Bishop:
That might have to suffice as the joke for this month. That might be as good as it gets. I’m realizing now how hard it is to have a joke prepared every month. I don’t think I can pick on Stephanie for this anymore.
Raquel Rosa:
Stephanie, you are missed and we will see you very soon.
Michelle Bishop:
All right, everyone, we hope you enjoyed that episode. As always, you can reach us at [email protected], especially if you have ideas for future topics that you want to hear covered on the podcast. If there’s something that you want us to talk about, guests you want us to have, we would love to hear it. You get to talk now, Jack, you don’t have to just listen. Do you want to let the people know where they can find us on social media?
Jack Rosen:
Thanks, Michelle. And you can follow us at NDRN Advocates on Twitter and Instagram, on Facebook and LinkedIn at the National Disability Rights Network. And you can follow us on TikTok even though we will never post there. Until next time, folks.
