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Mark Schultz, the current Commissioner of the Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA) and the Assistant Secretary for the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services (OSERS), discusses the tremendous potential of people with disabilities to successfully obtain jobs in the community. Commissioner Schultz stresses the importance of high expectations – that all people with disabilities can and should work and be able to pursue their dreams. He identifies some of the key issues that should be considered and programs/initiatives that may be helpful throughout an individual’s employment journey, even in the time of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Transcript
Ron Hager:
This is Ron Hagar with the National Disability Rights Network. And with me is Mark Schultz, who’s the assistant secretary of the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitation Services, or OSERS. He’s also the commissioner of the Rehabilitation Services Administration, RSA. Where are you? Are you in Washington?
Mark Schultz:
No, I’m actually in Nebraska.
Ron Hager:
You’re in Nebraska and I’m in Buffalo, New York.
Mark Schultz:
Yeah. It’s amazing how much we’ve been able to accomplish through this.
Ron Hager:
Yeah, yeah. So Mark, such a pleasure to have you with us this afternoon. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today as we do this podcast to celebrate the National Disability Employment Education [Awareness] Month, NDEAM, which is, I heard today from OSERS actually, that it’s the 75th anniversary.
Mark Schultz:
Yes, it is. It’s the 75th anniversary. We’re celebrating, as well as it’s the 100th anniversary this year, the VR program…
Ron Hager:
Oh, all right. That’s right. Well, we go back quite a ways, as I found out, back to when you were heading up the Assisted Technology Program in the State of Nebraska.
Mark Schultz:
Yep, many years ago, right? More than-
Ron Hager:
Yeah, more than we want to count, right? The reason I ask that question is I just wanted to ask you, since you’ve been in the field of disability work for so long, what was it that got you started?
Mark Schultz:
Well, I actually started out, I needed a job. So, looking through the paper, there was an ad for a very free design specialist at a Center For Independent Living in Nebraska. And I graduated from architecture and had a degree and I wanted to put it to use. So, I started working for the Center For Independent Living. I just caught the passion for the work that I was doing at that point. And then, had a family member that had some physical, mental health issues that, as that progressed, I was able to see her struggling with keeping a job, and started to look at what I might be able to do to help others in their search for employment and in success.
Mark Schultz:
So, that led me to a mission of wanting to improve employment services for people with disabilities. And as I progressed through my career, at the level I was working, whether it would have been with assisted technology or vocational rehabilitation eventually as the director, and then moving up, I saw issues that I wanted to work on that I couldn’t make a difference at that level. And so, I’ve just had the opportunity, fortunately, to be progressing in my career path and being at a level where I could hopefully influence some changes that would make a difference for people with disabilities.
Ron Hager:
Well, thank you, Mark. We certainly appreciate having you in the position you’re in. We really enjoy your message and your passion. Could you describe a little bit for us what your roles are right now, the two hats that you basically wear and how they work together?
Mark Schultz:
Sure. Well, I started out being confirmed as the Commissioner of Rehabilitation Services Administration after waiting 500 days from my nomination to confirmation. And then, after two months in that role, I was asked to serve as acting assistant secretary at that time for the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services or OSERS. So, that was an opportunity and a real honor for me to take on that role. And within both those roles, I helped to set the vision and the priorities for OSERS, and then set those in alignment with the Secretary of Education, secretary to boss, and those priorities occur for both our formula state grants and our discretionary grant investments. So, that’s the primary role. But, being able to serve in that dual role capacity really gives me the opportunity to promote collaboration between RSA and OSEP. So, that really focused in terms of our activities around education and employment, in terms of the collaboration and the alignment of those activities. So, I see it as a real opportunity.
Ron Hager:
Yeah. I think it is interesting because you do have both hats, you’re over both the special education system under Office of Special Education Programs and the RSA, the VR side.
Ron Hager:
So, you talked about your passion for this work because of your desire to see people with disabilities succeed. Could you go into a little bit more about how important it is for you for people with disabilities to be employed, to be competitively employed?
Mark Schultz:
Yep. I think it all emanates from my experience with the Center For Independent Living, where I was able to, I guess, get baptized to be of Independent Living and recognize how important it is for all of us really to have a job that affords us the opportunity to be economically self-sufficient, to pursue our goals, our dreams, and our ambitions.
Mark Schultz:
For example, many of us, when someone asks us who are we or what do we do, it’s always around our work, our response, and what we do. So, a lot of our self-worth and self-esteem is often based in… So, it’s real critical that we have the opportunity to be able to succeed. And for people with disabilities, it’s particularly important, I think, that expectations be raised for everyone so that we’re not satisfied, and people shouldn’t expect to be in subminimal wage jobs, in non-integrated environments. And that’s the importance of competitive integrated environment. It creates an expectation that everyone can and should work, and that we should be looking to maximize the potential of every individual, based on their disability and their unique needs so that they can really be as successful as possible.
Ron Hager:
Thank you for that. Definitely, we share that mission, which is wonderful. The whole point of all this is preparing people with disabilities for success. And I really liked the way you went for the childhood, because a lot of families say, “Oh, my child’s disabled. Our life is ruined. It’s over. What are we going to do?” To have that expectation that your child with a disability is no different in terms of expectations for any other child. It may be different, but the expectations should be the same. So, I appreciated that message, yeah.
Mark Schultz:
Yeah, thank you. Laurie and I have had those discussions and that was something I recognized when I was a director of VR in Nebraska. And then, when I went to deputy commissioner, I was able to actually start to influence that to some degree because I had special education under me and early childhood. So, I think that is important too. Without those expectations, people only live up to the expectations those have around them. So, the parents are so critical in this process.
Ron Hager:
Right. Right. With the role of VR, as you’re looking at preparing people to be successful, to be employed competitively in integrated settings, what do you see the role of the Vocational Rehabilitation system in that process?
Mark Schultz:
Well, I would even start before the role of VR, because I think it’s important to establish the expectation very early on, that everyone can work. And I would extend that everyone can go to school. So early childhood, when a family has a child that’s born with a disability it’s necessary, I think, that we reach out and connect those parents to the resources, but to create the expectation that they should have that for their child, that every child should be able to go to school, go to work. And that the families should know that and support that as we move forward.
Mark Schultz:
So, creating that expectation early on is real critical. And then, as VR gets involved early on with the provision of pre-employment transition services with students with disabilities, it’s to support those students as they learn about work and begin to acquire the necessary information, the skills and the experiences to really make informed decisions about their career choices. And then, working with youth and adults to again, help to support their informed choices through some of the career counseling, the work-based learning experiences, training, to acquire skills and knowledge, advocacy in independent living skills, so that they’re able to go to work. And the necessary information to make good informed decisions around benefits and financial decisions. We help with identifying job opportunities and assisting without painting, what I call quality employment, which I think WIOA really says, we should be about quality employment.
Mark Schultz:
And so, that may mean supporting individuals as they advance in a career pathway, so that they’re truly reaching their goals and getting meaningful employment, that it helps move towards economic self-sufficiency.
Ron Hager:
You mentioned benefits. We’ve experienced a lot of times, parents being afraid or concerned about if their student or young person goes to work, that they might lose benefits. So, how important is it for the families to know about how work does affect benefits, and is that a role that VR can and should play in helping make sure families are aware of this information?
Mark Schultz:
Yeah. Particularly when we’re talking about pre-employment transition services, that is something that the VR agencies can play a role in. So, whether it’s counselors, and I know in many States they contract with the WIPA program, other providers to assist with some of the benefits counseling that is occurring. But, it’s so important and critical to families as they make those decisions, and the impact of those decisions on finances and benefits.
Mark Schultz:
So, we really see the need for that. And I think that continues Ron, as individuals progress with their employment as well. So, when they get a job, what are the decisions they should be making about retirement plans and contributing to those retirement plans? Are there consequences if they don’t? And then as well as if they’re still receiving benefits at some level, what’s the impact of advancing in their career and receiving a promotion or an advancement in pay? So, those are critical decisions that need to be supported with the benefits counseling.
Ron Hager:
You talked about the pre-employment transition services, and what we really have now in the federal law with the special education laws and rehabilitation laws is a plan or a hope that the special ed system and the VR system worK together while students are still in school. And I know you will feel that’s critical. What are some things that could be done to make this more effective to really get the two systems to work better together, to meet the needs of students?
Mark Schultz:
Well, as you’ve said, the coordination between schools and the VR programs, it’s key to maximizing those opportunities for students with disabilities, so that they can get the experience and the skills necessary, just as their peers are able to do that, to have those work experience opportunities. And that really creates them that foundation for success later on. So, as you said, that partnership really is built on common goals and values between IDEA and the Rehab Act. And that really is intended to provide for a seamless service, in terms of services and the provision of those services and supports, to help those students with their career goals.
Mark Schultz:
So, some of the things that we’ve done to help facilitate that is again, having RSA and OSEP work on providing some of the support. So, one of those is the transition guide that was recently updated to emphasize pre-employment transition services, and the transition services and how those could be coordinated across systems. In addition, Laurie VanderPloeg, the director of OSEP, and myself just issued a letter that went out to the leadership within VR agencies and schools, special education, that sets the expectation and encourages that collaboration in expecting that VR programs and schools, the LEA, should be working together to coordinate those services. And particularly now during this time where COVID 19 and the pandemic has really impacted on that ability to reach out to students and coordinate.
Mark Schultz:
We’re really encouraging them to look at opportunities to be more flexible, in terms of how those services and supports can be provided. And particularly for schools to work with the VR programs to provide access to those students who may be using remote learning and to be able to connect with those students. Because when they’re not in person, it really makes it much more difficult for VR agencies to do that. So, things that we’re doing to try to expand that partnership and encourage that partnership from the federal level. I think in addition to that one thing I’m really excited about, Ron-
Ron Hager:
Right. Go.
Mark Schultz:
Is, not that I’m not excited enough about this…
Ron Hager:
I could tell.
Mark Schultz:
But, it’s more than just the schools and the VR agencies; there are other partners. And we’ve been having discussions with Julie Hocker, the Commissioner of the Administration for Community Living, about the role of Centers For Independent Living, because they have a core service to transition. And are we connecting enough? And so, we’re having some discussions and bringing stakeholders together right now to talk about how we can collaborate across all those programs to more effectively provide services to students with disabilities. So, look for more to come in that arena.
Ron Hager:
Oh, that’s great. That’s really exciting. I mean, that is one of the problems when we have all these systems in place and they all have their, I would say silo, but it’s not quite that. Them laid out, but to get the system to work together is a critical issue.
Ron Hager:
You mentioned COVID, and one of the things that we at NDRN really appreciated from your office and from you Mark, right from the beginning was the message to the VR system, “We’re open for business. Yes, we have to do things differently, but we are going to continue to push forward, to be creative, to do as much we possibly can to meet the needs of our clients in this environment.” So I’d love to hear you talk a little bit more about the role you’ve been playing, maybe with both hats, in ensuring that the mission is still being met, even in this time of COVID.
Mark Schultz:
Yeah. So, I would just point out, it was my message, Laurie’s message, but also Secretary to Boss’ message, that the expectation that all students have continued to receive educational services, especially students with disabilities was so critical during this time. So, I would say, we can look at COVID-19 a number of ways. And while we certainly see the challenges that exist, there are also many of opportunities that we can look to take advantage of right now. So for VR, what we’re seeing in our discussions with the programs across the country is they’ve been able to, I think, respond admirably by being able to gear up and provide remote services, and to stay connected to individuals with disabilities as they look to be employed. But also to retain jobs that they have through additional training that can connect them to technology and assisted technology that allows them to, if their businesses and jobs have moved to remote or telework situations, to support that transition to those jobs. So, that has been critical to success.
Mark Schultz:
But, there are also jobs out there depending on the service sector for us to connect individuals to. So, they’ve had to be very innovative and creative as they’re working, not just with individuals with disabilities, but also businesses, as they’re sifting to telework, to be able to stay connected to those businesses and to connect them to the qualified workforce that we have and the individuals that we have. So, that’s required programs to adapt their training and to work through telework themselves. So through experienced, they’re able to share that.
Mark Schultz:
But, as I see it, you look at the telework that’s going on right now, and the shift that businesses have had to do to that format, it actually provides greater flexibility because they see they’re able to continue to provide services in that way. That really provides for greater adaptability through accommodations for persons with disabilities. You can allow for different ways of getting work done and greater flexibility in hours as to when that work gets done. So, there are lots of opportunities I think that we can take a hold of if we just stay aware of that, right?
Ron Hager:
Right. Yeah, that’s true for a lot of people with disabilities, that may be reasonable accommodations in their work schedule because of difficulty getting ready or different ways that disability may affect them. It’s just universal design that they can just work at their own schedule and they don’t have to worry about commuting and getting ready. It does open some doors, that’s correct, yes.
Mark Schultz:
Yep. So, I think that’s the important point, is to stay positive about it and look for the… I mean, we could talk all day long about the challenges as well, which we see. Again, I think VR has always tried to evolve with the times. And as I mentioned early on, a hundred years of experience that we have. Times have changed recently, but they’ve been changing for a hundred years. And I think that’s the beauty of the program, is it continues to evolve and adapt to those changes.
Ron Hager:
Right. Right. No, it’s critical as we continue to move forward. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us today, Mark?
Mark Schultz:
I think what I would do is just build off of that last statement. A hundred years of experience, VR continues to evolve. And I just want to assure everyone that’s listening that the VR programs out across the country are out there and continue to serve. And I think some people have assumed because of COVID that perhaps some services aren’t available. But, from our discussions with States, they’ve been sharing with us that they are up and running, whether it would be in-person or through telework, remotely, or some kind of hybrid model. They’re still out there providing services.
Mark Schultz:
Over the course of the hundred years, while we’ve evolved through innovative and creative solutions perhaps, one thing has remained constant. And that is the program’s focus on helping individuals and assisting them to achieve their goals and employment and independence. And we’ll continue to do that well into the next hundred years.
Ron Hager:
Well, thanks again, Mark. I really appreciated spending your time today with us, and I really appreciate your vision, and stay tuned for the next episode.
Ron Hager:
All right. So, thanks again, Mark. And eventually, maybe we’ll see each other face-to-face.
Mark Schultz:
All right. Thanks, Ron. Have a good weekend.
Ron Hager:
Bye-bye. Thanks.
Mark Schultz:
Thank you.
Ron Hager:
Take care.
Curt Decker:
I’m Curt Decker, executive director of NDRN, and thank you for celebrating National Disability Employment Awareness Month with us and our members. We hope you enjoy these podcasts, and we look forward to talking with you more in the future about the important issues impacting the lives of people with disabilities.
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