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We’re doing it for the gram… Erika’s Grandma, that is. Join as we sing goodbye, crown a new reigning queen of bad puns, and send Erika off to Sweden.
If you want to get a Panda Pod music playlist curated by Erika, Justice, and Michelle, send your song suggestions to [email protected] with the subject line: Podcast Playlist.
Transcript
Michelle Bishop:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the worst episode of the PandA Pod ever. And that’s saying a lot,` because we have a tendency to talk excessively about disaster on this podcast. I am one third of your host, Michelle Bishop, with Voter Access and Engagement Manager here at NDRN. Justice, tell the people who you are.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I am Justine “Justice” Shorter, otherwise known as Justice. I am the National Disaster Protection Advisor, here at the National Disability Rights Network. Hello, everyone. Happy to be here.
Erika Husdon:
You all that was extraordinary. We didn’t even prepare for that. This is Erika. You’re third of the third. Can I say that? Third of the third? Is that a thing?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Sure, go with it. Yeah.
Erika Husdon:
I like it.
Michelle Bishop:
I’m not sure but do it.
Erika Husdon:
Let’s do it. I am Erika Hudson, Public Policy Analyst at NDRN. And I guess this will serve as, well, I don’t even want to say it. I don’t even want to say this will be my last podcast on the PandA Pod.
Michelle Bishop:
Tell the people. Tell the people why this is the worst episode ever.
Erika Husdon:
I don’t know if we’re going-
Michelle Bishop:
Reap the bandaid off Erika. Drop it.
Erika Husdon:
We’re going to make it the best PandA Pod episode. That’s the … I’m headed out. I am leaving to go to grad school, so I will be missing all these extraordinary people on this podcast and you all. But I’m very grateful that I can jump on one last time. Not last time. I’m hoping you will bring me back as a guest one day. That’s going to be the plan.
Michelle Bishop:
Justice, do we have sad violin music-
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
No, but I can always just break out with Boys II Men. You know what I mean?
Michelle Bishop:
It’s time.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Okay. [singing]. Okay.
Michelle Bishop:
I don’t know if you can hear me snapping in the background you all. It got real. And to this day, I don’t even know if Erika knows Boys II Men.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Yeah. It’s unfortunate.
Erika Husdon:
I have tears in my eyes.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
It was fun.
Erika Husdon:
That was the most beautiful thing ever.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
It’s funny, because I was literally about to hit with the Tevin Campbell and I just felt like I should just be asking … It’s a whole other song and it has nothing to do with her leaving. But Tevin Campbell is dope and I feel like it’s somehow the same time. But I just wanted to get into that, but it’s fine. We’ll save it for another-
Michelle Bishop:
… She knows who Tevin Campbell is. She’s Swedish American. She’s spent way too much of her life, listening to ABBA. She doesn’t know these artists.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Like I said, we gone have to get you up with a playlist before you leave on the PandA Pod playlist.
Michelle Bishop:
Yes.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
If you guys have recommendations, feel free to send them in to an email address that will be provided in the show notes..
Michelle Bishop:
Modified playlist. Yes.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
There’s no way for me to know if we have show notes, but it’s fine.
Michelle Bishop:
And it’s also just going to be a lot of ’90s R&B clearly.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Clearly. And a couple Swedish sweet songs thrown in there as well. With Erika’s recommendations. I think we can do this. But there’s so many great things to discuss. And there’s been so many updates. My goodness folks, since we’ve been on the Pod together, it’s been pretty much a year since the three of us have been joined together in conversation. So I’m really eager and elated to hear what you all have been up to.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I mean, we’ve had a whole election, we’ve had multiple disasters. We’re still currently dealing with concurrent crises, everything from the COVID pandemic, to now being in hurricane season. To also thinking about wildfire season and excessive heat waves. And so many different things for us to unpack and for us to think about and to be aware of, as we continue on doing the work to protect and advocate on behalf of and on directly beside people with disabilities. So I’m excited for today’s conversation.
Michelle Bishop:
Honestly, last time we spoke, it was so long ago. You might’ve heard there was a little election that happened.
Erika Husdon:
Wait what?
Michelle Bishop:
Between men and now … There was, there was. If you felt like it was supposed to end in early November and it somehow went through January, you are not alone. That dragged on for a long time. But actually the cool thing is, and we’ve been sharing a lot of information about this with the network. We made so many changes to how we run our elections based on COVID, that it actually has this side effect of making elections more accessible for people with disabilities.
Michelle Bishop:
Because we did things like making it easier to vote by mail, or letting you drop it off at a drop box, or letting you vote curbside, all these things that they did for the pandemic, that maybe we should have been doing all along, that made voting a lot more accessible. So as contentious and strained as this election was, we actually probably made some awesome progress on really realizing the promise of the ADA and HAVA when it comes to elections.
Michelle Bishop:
But of course, that means we’re now seeing a lot of backlash in the states. And having to work very hard to make sure that all those things stay in place and that they don’t get taken away in the state legislatures. I know Erika has been doing a ton of work on this. I think that’s probably Erika, I assume that’s the part you’re not going to miss.
Erika Husdon:
Yeah. Let’s just put it that way. Speaking of the ADA, happy 31st birthday coming up to the Americans with Disabilities Act. Right? Perfect timing that we’re all talking about this and it’s so surreal that we all met right before everything changed in Justice’s office. And talked about voting and emergency preparedness and the 2020 census. I remember-
Michelle Bishop:
We talked a lot about disasters and we didn’t know one was coming.
Erika Husdon:
No. And I think … Yeah. So here we are and the fact that the 2020 census wrapped up, but it’s still ongoing since we’re still looking at that data. And we just recently found out a few months ago, the initial population counts for every state, which was pretty exciting to see, but also emphasize the importance of being in the 2020 census. I think New York lost a seat in the House of Representative, by less than 30 people.
Erika Husdon:
Meaning if 30 more people had either been counted, or if they weren’t missed in the census, which arguably we won’t know for a while, that’s how New York lost a seat in the House of Representatives. So again, it’s emphasizes the importance and ties it all in together, right? With voting and emergency preparedness, given that the pandemic was happening during the count.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Yeah. I want to actually pull on that thread. The both of you have kind of mentioned the changes that come in the midst of a crisis. And of course, I’m always trying to be vigilant of these things. Because sometimes those changes are for the better and sometimes they make things drastically worse. So you mentioned a bit about the backlash that came in terms of voting. Can the two of you talk to us a little bit about the things that you want to keep, the things that you hope to sustain in terms of what has come out of COVID.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Michelle, you talk about some of those great changes in terms of voting rights. Are there any other things that you guys are noticing? Even if it’s outside of your typical portfolio for NDRN, but just things that you have noticed in terms of the disability community, that you really hope will stick around. Even as the country starts to shift into a different posture, as it relates to the pandemic, right? Things will be opening the spikes the prevalence of the Delta variant and of course, trying to maintain that and get that under control.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
But more and more people are becoming vaccinated every day and things are starting to widen up a bit more. But what are you guys are hoping we’ll either stick around, or that we’ve gained during the pandemic?
Michelle Bishop:
Erika.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And what are you hoping will change and get better?
Michelle Bishop:
I’m hoping Erika will stick around. Is it too late?
Erika Husdon:
That was good. That was really good.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Yeah. I had no clue what was happening either, but I’m thinking what are you putting down. Well, what are you two thinking?
Michelle Bishop:
Well, I think we did … I talked about it in the elections world, but even in general, we really had this movement towards, you can get things delivered, you can pick things up curbside. And I think that has a benefits for all types of folks who may not be able to get out of the house, or get to some of those places, or those places may not be fully accessible to them, or they might just be someone who’s immunocompromised who really would benefit from limiting their exposure more in general.
Michelle Bishop:
And I think that we shouldn’t rely on those things, right? We need to make everything fully accessible. But I guess what elections has taught me, is that I love the idea of options and everyone should get to pick the option that’s really going to make it work for them. And I think the more we’ve created those, I hope that they stick around and we keep thinking that way in terms of just here’s a smattering of options. Pick the thing that’s going to make this work for you and go live your life. And again, participate fully in your community.
Erika Husdon:
Right. And I mean on that too Michelle, right? I think including myself, I’ve said, “Oh, I can’t wait until things get back to normal.” Right? I mean, I know I’ve used that expression. But the reality is, why not better? Right? And there’re some of our colleagues within the disability community, who’ve said that too. And been fantastic at being open and honest about that conversation.
Erika Husdon:
Before, things weren’t necessarily the greatest if you look at certain aspects. Whether it’s the flexibility with working from home for various reasons, or just access to telehealth that I feel like has become more prominent now, following the pandemic. Let’s get back to better. I think that sounds really exciting and people are working really hard to get there. So I think that’s something I’m excited about what the future holds.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Indeed, so am I. I think there’s just so much work that has been done and so much work to continue to do. And just in terms of the network, there has just been a groundswell of advocacy and activism and work around rationing, right? And making sure that policies and procedures and practices concerning health care for individuals with disabilities, that those systems were not continuing to be structured in a way that wasn’t equitable for people with disabilities.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And then when you merge that, in relation to Black indigenous and people of color with disabilities, that is a different conversation. When we look at some of those disparities and we look at the impacts and the numbers and the differences of how those things bear out geographically, how they bear out in terms of sexual orientation. And then also of course, what it looks like when all of those things intersect.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
When we talk about race, when we talk about gender, when we talk about sexuality, when we talk about disability, when we talk about all of those things simultaneously. Because we live these holistic lives, right? We don’t live these single issue lives. And so thinking about that in a true sense of the word of intersectionality and its meaning around compounded forms of oppression, this is what the pandemic revealed for many.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And it affirmed for others, right? Others who have been saying this and who have been screaming these messages from the Raptors for decades. It had amplified their voices even more. No longer could their commentaries and their stories be cloaked in darkness and disbelief, right? And disparaging these individuals in terms of what their true lived experiences were. Saying, that this is not real because it’s not happening in massive amounts of numbers, right? It’s not impacting the masses. So in that sense, it’s not real, or it’s not relevant.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
So many people have been receiving these messages in one way or another, whether it be implicit or explicit. And I think the pandemic has done a lot to move us forward in a measurable way. So I’m excited about that. I’m excited for the conversation and the concentration around making sure that those who are the most impacted, remain at the center of how we shape and how we sculpt things, right? And that really invigorates me. And I’m hoping that once things continue to open up and unveil itself in different ways, in terms of this new reality that we’re all trying to build, I’m hoping that that won’t be forgotten about. Right?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And I think a lot of folks from where I’m from, we typically say, we’re not new to this we are true to this. We’ve been talking about these issues before 2020, we’ve been talking about during 2020s, talking about in after 2020. This is just who we are as a people, that is our story, it is the ancestry, it is the history. And making sure that those narratives don’t get lost. And this highly focused obsession with normalcy and wanting to get back to the way things were, which were not great for everybody. And that was the problem.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And we saw how much worse they could get for everyone else, when we start to see it in connection to large scale, catastrophic events, such as a public health crisis, like the one we’re dealing with right now, as well as other events that are taking place. I’m really thrilled that you all mentioned that because it’s something that we want all the listeners to just remain vigilant of in your advocacy and your work. Please continue to stay the course and to chart new territory.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And going places, going directions that other people have not been. Sometimes it can be as simple as getting together with two of your home girls, or two friends, or two work colleagues and having a conversation about what are the needs? Right? What can we do? How can we move outside of what has become the status quo, in order to make some real substantive change? And those conversations do something to you. They change you both personally and professionally. And so, that is only my personal testimony because it’s happened for me and so I hope that it happens for you. And let us know what we can do to help you come through.
Michelle Bishop:
Well, I would have dressed nicer for today’s episode if I had known we were going to church.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I’m just saying. Put everything down.
Michelle Bishop:
Because you did preach, Justice.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Put everything down. I’m just saying. That is so much-
Michelle Bishop:
But I feel you though. I mean, I don’t know if I … We keep talking about going back to normal and I ordered an air purifier and had it sent to the office. So I don’t know if I’m all that interested in going back to how things were in particular. But I hope people start staying home when you feel sick, instead of going into work, or wherever and potentially getting people sick. I hope I still see people wear the mask on the Metro, if they do have to go out and they aren’t feeling well. Right? I mean, I think hopefully the thing the pandemic has taught us, is that we can do things to take care of each other, to make each other’s lives better. Right? And keep each other safe. I hope that comes out of this.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Oh my goodness. And you talked about something great. Erika, I want to get your thoughts on this too, about workplace accommodations, right? People with disabilities, all of a sudden we can tell them … And people have talked about this extensively right, over the last year or so. I’m like, oh my goodness. Things that we have been fighting for for years, the exact reasons why we were refused certain positions.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Saying that telework wasn’t an option. And we couldn’t get things done remotely. And I couldn’t do my job in this way or that way. All of a sudden it became available to everyone. Are there other workplace accommodations, or things that you’ve noticed just in your conversations, or your dealings with people with disabilities, that you’ve noticed have been really, really great attributions, or additions that you hope stick around?
Erika Husdon:
Yeah. And Justice, thank you so much for sharing everything that echo just what Michelle said. Thank you. This is what we always need to have these conversations on the regular basis ya’ll. And come together and talk about exactly this. And I think there’s a lot of different avenues that we can take in terms of workplace accommodations, or the disability community using politely the expression, I told you so. In the sense that things can be better and they should be.
Erika Husdon:
And it’s not even work. Right? It’s just all the things. I think I’ve heard numerous stories of people being able to see musicals for the first time, because they were hosted virtually right? Or concerts, something that is really exciting and more inclusive. And I think it gives us the option just like Michelle said, why not have options that work for everyone? And I know we are all at home right now doing this, which is really exciting, but just figuring out what works best for everyone, I think is the best solution.
Erika Husdon:
Although I miss seeing everyone, but all intensive purposes and being in the same room, this is also pretty awesome in my opinion. So just figuring out what’s best for everyone. But I’m curious … I don’t know. That’s a good question. What else, in terms of work accommodations. I feel like I need to have a better response to that then.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
No, that was a great
Michelle Bishop:
Sorry. Did anyone else notice that Erika said, you all are at home doing this right now? Where is Erika?
Erika Husdon:
Oh, I’m at home. I’m currently … No, I should be more explicit. I am-
Michelle Bishop:
She’s already in Sweden isn’t she?
Erika Husdon:
No, right. Wearing pajama pants still, to be completely transparent.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I am all about it. I am wearing basketball shorts, which has been my uniform. Yeah. It’s been my summertime uniform, because it’s so hot in D.C. And that’s another thing about thinking about the weather and thinking about the environment. The heat waves that have been going across the country. I think D.C. yesterday was around 95. Where I’m from, my hometown Milwaukee, Wisconsin was 93. Texas is, and areas around the South are triple digits, right?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
So in California triple digit numbers that folks are noticing. And that has some real difficult and heavy effects, specifically as it relates to individuals with disabilities, is trying to find cooling centers and getting transportation to these places. It is issues like this, that really stand out in my mind. And it’s primarily because they sometimes don’t make the same level of impact in terms of media attention, right? They don’t sometimes get the same level of attention as a really big storm would get, or perhaps as a massive wildfire would get. But they also really impact the lives and the wellbeing of people with disabilities. So it’s a huge issue. And I’m hoping that people will also have the opportunity to stay cool, because that’s a conversation that sometimes gets overlooked.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
But in terms of what you were saying also, Erika, I also completely agree that it should not just all be about work, right? And we also have to understand that people with disabilities and people, even those who do not have disabilities, your worth is not tethered to your work. Do you have inherent worth as a human being holistically? And so to honor and understand that.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And so all parts of how you find joy and pleasure in life, is important. Like you were saying Erika, the theater shows. My goodness I miss theater, concerts, things like that. People having access to those things virtually, is a huge deal. And also being able to, once things open back up, having the option to go there in person and making sure that access is provided in those physical spaces, just as much as they’re hopefully going to remain some degree of access in virtual spaces as well, would really be monumental to make sure that people can continue participating in all parts of life. That they deem appropriate and important for them.
Erika Husdon:
Right?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Which is a great point.
Erika Husdon:
That was good. I love how the segues are happening. It’s like we’re host of the PandA Pod. And also, I will say, when you said monumental, I thought that was appropriate because we were like, we’re in D.C., monument. You know what I mean? Had to throw that out there.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
On the nose. On the nose yeah.
Michelle Bishop:
It’s like she can’t leave without doing a pan.
Erika Husdon:
No, [inaudible 00:20:09]. I think you’ll just have to be ready for all the fruit cushions that I’ll leave behind for you all. So you’re welcome in advance. But I think that’s a really good point. And I know we talked about a lot of serious things during the PandA Pod, but also I love to hear about what people are passionate about outside of all the important work that they do. And what they find joy in. And I think for some, including myself, that was amplified during the pandemic and during everything that happened in 2020.
Erika Husdon:
I know I started baking a lot so that was wonderful. And I found camping, which I know based on our conversations, that’s not everyone’s favorite on this podcast. But all I’m saying is that, what I found to be amazing. What did you all do? Anything in particular that you found joy in during the pandemic?
Michelle Bishop:
Okay. First of all, camping just sounds like how you die in a horror movie and I’m sticking to that. I have seen enough 80 slasher flicks, to know that that holds up. But I’ve probably, over the past year, have spent more time with my baby nephews who are four and about to be two, than I ever could have imagined. And they are hilarious and wonderful and give very good hugs.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I know. Awesome. Oh my God, kids give the best hugs. My nephew who’s eight years old, actually just recently told me that I needed to breakup with D.C. So it’s just like, you need to stop going back and forth to D.C. He’s over it. He lives in Milwaukee and he’s just done. It’s like, you need to break up. D.C. is no good for you. It’s a wrap. He’s not feeling it anymore. The kids are just amazing.
Michelle Bishop:
We’re already moving inter-coast. I need your nephew to back up a little bit. Okay?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
He is so passionate about this. Actually, in thinking about people with disabilities as whole people and what’s whole lives and multifaceted lives, another thing I’ll be quite candid that has really given me a lot of joy, is to notice love, right? Just people, whether it’s love for family members, just people coming together on Zoom calls, right? People making a concerted effort to hug one another. Not like people who’ve been in let’s say your pod.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
But caring, giving distance hugs and sending kisses people’s way. Just I love you, I care for you, making calls to folks who they haven’t spoken to in I don’t know how long. Some folks have gone back to penning letters, or writing kind of more long form emails. But really kind of focusing in on the connection that we have with one another. Even dating wise. Folks are just like, I want to focus more on my personal life too.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Again, understanding that people are not machines, we’re just work, work, work, work, work, but also, care about building families, or building relationships and having love and joy in their lives and pleasure in their lives in a multitude of ways. And that has really lit me up inside. Everything from even the end of life celebrations, because there’s been so much loss. But people coming together to show their expression of love, or even those who were not able to survive the, who didn’t have to survive the certain disasters, or even the pandemic.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
But coming together in that way. And then letting love fuel them and fuel their advocacy. Right? To say that no other family should go through this, or no other child should have to lose a parent this early. And so letting that love be the back force, be the true backing of their advocacy, has really lit me up as well. So I think about love in this conversation too. And love is the thing that really feels me in a lot of ways.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And when I am preparing remarks, or to do a workshop, or speaking, I really try my best to let love lead me. What do I think these people, whoever the audience is, really needs to hear? And if I don’t have something that I think is pertinent to say, or I just want to add anything, I just try my best not to say anything. Just like you’re not thinking that’s good. You got it. You don’t really need me on this panel. But I think letting love be my barometer for that, has been really helpful. So 2020 revealed that to me. It really, really helped you to get more centered in love.
Michelle Bishop:
The other thing too, is as we’re having this conversation, I think for folks who are listening, I know there’s a lot of work to do. There’s always a lot of really pressing work to do. The work that we do is so important and it changes people’s lives. And that’s always with me. But as we talk about getting back to normal, or getting back to a better version of normal. Thinking about those things that you realize over the past year, give you joy, or peace, or fuel your fire, or whatever it may be. And think about how you’re going to take those back into the world. And think about how you’re going to take care of yourself as we do that.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Absolutely. Self-care, it’s huge. Erika, how are you going to be taking care of yourself when you go Sweden?
Michelle Bishop:
I was going to say this episode is really all about Erika. So I feel like Erika, what do you want to talk about on your way out the door?
Erika Husdon:
I just wanted to talk to you all. That’s what I wanted to have happen. It’s been one of the greatest joys doing this. And I know it’s not a goodbye. It’s 100% just to see you later. So I’m not worried at all, but it has truly been one of the greatest joys to do this. I will never forget the memories that we’ve had doing this. And you know I and my grandmother, will continue to listen to the PandA Pod and all the important work that you all are doing. As I’m in Sweden, probably listening to ABBA like Michelle said. Because even well into 2021, it appears Swedes still listen to ABBA and all the classics right there.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Just add Tevin Campbell to them. Just add Tevin Campbell, Can We Talk. Add it to the list. It’s dope.
Michelle Bishop:
Yes.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
It’s amazing.
Michelle Bishop:
Oh my gosh, it’s a classic.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And I’m about to … I’m so about to blast it once we get off this call, because I’m into Tevin Campbell. It’s a whole (beep). It’s a whole live. And so …
Michelle Bishop:
Wow. And the first time we ever had used the bleep button. There it is folks.
Erika Husdon:
Was it right? I don’t know if that was the first time. We always used to cut, last time. But I’m not going to get sad because that will just be endless. But I couldn’t think of a better way to do this with anyone else on the team. And also of course, our incredible communication specialist, Tina, who has done all the work for this. You all-
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Tina Pinedo.
Erika Husdon:
… Amazing. And maybe next episode, not next episode, because there’s still some things I think that the world needs to work out before then. But then one day we’ll all just record in Sweden and it will be fantastic.
Michelle Bishop:
Yes. Can we get NDRN to pay for a Swedish episode, where we go to Sweden?
Erika Husdon:
It’s probably on the list so.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Talk about advocacy.
Michelle Bishop:
All right.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Talk about advocacy. I think we should be advocating for those things.
Erika Husdon:
Exactly. I feel like the only last request I have, is for you all to sing us out. Right? Is that an option here? I mean, you already sang, so I feel like that should be the last of it, as we continue everyone’s important advocacy, sing us out.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
What’s your request?
Michelle Bishop:
I was going to say, a song request.
Erika Husdon:
Honestly, you all do whatever you feel most comfortable with, is what I would say. I don’t want to put you on the spot, which I clearly already did.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
I’ve been throwing out songs. Michelle what you got?
Michelle Bishop:
I’m still feeling that Boys II Men vibe Justice. Are you ready?
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Which one? Which song?
Michelle Bishop:
All right. I’m going to take it. You come in when you hear it. Okay?.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
Okay. Otherwise I’ll just hang.
Michelle Bishop:
It’s going out to Erika.
Erika Husdon:
Thank you. And here are Justice and Michelle singing us out of the PandA Pod.
Michelle Bishop:
All right. This is for you, Erika.
Justine “Justice” Shorter:
And we out.
Erika Husdon:
That was amazing. That was so good.
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